Welcome to Unruly Season 2

A podcast from Flamingo and Audacy’s Pineapple Street Studios

At Flamingo, we know that women deal with a lot: the expected, unexpected, and everything in between. That’s why we created Unruly. Season 1 was all about navigating a world that loves to categorize, analyze, and discuss women’s bodies; Season 2 has the same spirit but a different bent. Instead of talking about regulation, we’re talking about conversation.

Because we believe that if women are talking about it, it’s important. Whether we’re discussing dating in a recession, the way TikTok is shaping girlhood, consumer capitalism, or how to survive that annual girls trip, we’re giving women the opportunity to be their truest, most flamboyant selves. New episodes drop on Wednesdays.

INTRO: 

Anna: Hey, guys, I'm Anna and this is Unruly. Today I'm here with Yael Averbush-West, former professional soccer player across many leagues and current general manager and head of soccer operations for Gotham Football Club, New York and New Jersey's national women's soccer league team. Yael, thank you so much for coming today. 

Yael West: My pleasure. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Anna: Can you, I guess just to start off, can you tell me what kind of brought you to your current role at Gotham?

Yael West: Absolutely. So, yeah, ever since — I'm from this area, from New Jersey, ever since I was basically on my first rec soccer team, soon after that I decided I wanted to be a professional soccer player. That's all I ever wanted to do. So I didn't have a vision for, you know, being in a role like general manager at that point. But after my playing career and kind of towards the later stages of it, I was very involved in kind of transitioning what I had learned on the field into various things off the field. And so, yeah, being from the area and really being a supporter of the club, and it was my first professional club as a player. I am very invested in making it something that the world can be proud of and kind of fostering the soccer community that raised me and bringing it kind of all full circle. So it's been a really fun time and I'm trying to let everybody know about Gotham FC.

Anna: I think with that, it feels like we're kind of in the midst of this big cultural change and the hype around women's sports is much more prevalent than it has been in years prior and seems to really have picked up. I think like considering, obviously women's sport have always existed, and there are always countless iconic moments that have existed throughout history, maybe not really got the attention that they deserved at the time. Why do you think this is finally happening now?

Yael West: It's a really interesting question. I've thought about this a lot because having been involved in the game, you know, I think of as players, we were doing the same things as the players now. But the platform and the opportunity in women's sports in general, and what I've just seen in women soccer really has, you know, what I thought was the ceiling, we've blown through it. And it's been wonderful to see. I think there were a number of factors, especially when I look at the NWSL in particular in women’s soccer. And I really think that COVID was was a big and important turning point. 

Anna: That's interesting. 

Yael West: And yeah, and I've thought about this a lot, NWSL was one of the first leagues back, I believe maybe the first league back, and it was during a time when there were a lot of statements being made by the players in the women's soccer community about things off the field in the social justice movement, and there were lot of really important cultural moments that NWSL was front and center in, and the players. Did a wonderful job, I think, of standing up and making their voices be heard. And we saw it in the WNBA too. And so I think that was really pivotal for women's sports. And then, you know, off the back of that, I do think there has been a big momentum and recognition that there is significant entertainment value and that there's a business opportunity to be had in women's sports. You know, in the past, I think when you thought of ownership groups or investment in women sports, it had been talked about almost like a donation or a charity, and now it's being seen as an investment opportunity, and business people are interested in growing their business portfolios by looking at women's sports, and the change in the type of ownership groups coming into women's sports, and NWSL specifically, and even, you know, at Gotham FC, with Next 3, and Carolyn Tish-Blodgett coming on, it sends a message to everyone else. These are really smart, powerful business people, and they are looking at women's sports as the next investment or the next area of their growth.

Anna: I think it's kind of funny too because I mean the US women's national team has I can't obviously say always been good but they've been consistently dominating the scene I'd say. But where was the — where do you think the hype was around that. Like I think very much lived within like the context of the Olympics and like World Cups and so forth, but especially since soccer isn't necessarily like a huge thing in the US do you think that had something to do with it?

Yael West: I think it's huge, but the US Women's National Team has such a powerful following in a lot of household names, which is what you need to kind of make a sport mainstream. But like you mentioned, there's a tournament every four years, or a big event every couple years, and it's very, it's event-based. It's not all the time, it’s not week in, week out, and so what NWSL has now done is brought that same level of star power and talent into local markets so people have local teams they can support.

Anna: Mm-hmm.

Yael West: The games are happening every week, sometimes twice a week. And it's a new model, and it's a different way to follow the sport and follow the game. And I think for a lot of Americans — Americans love the chance to be world champions and win an Olympic gold medal or a world cup. But there is something larger with soccer, and I think it's really starting to translate into the fandom on the regular basis. But it's been very interesting to watch that transition.

Anna: How do you think that the NWSL can make people care about those local teams?

Yael West: Yeah, it's a very good question. This is a conversation we have at Gotham all the time and that the league is having. I think there's a few things. One is just awareness. In the youth soccer market, I grew up in the area where Gotham is, and the number of top local elite youth soccer clubs is extraordinary. There are players, parents, coaches, fans of the game, young adults who know about the sport of soccer and don't yet know about Gotham. And so there's a lot of work to do to raise that awareness. But I think also with sports, people want to understand rivalries. They want household names. They want to know who they're watching and why they should care. They have to know about Esther Gonzalez and her story. They have to know and understand who the people are and, you know, start to connect with that. And I think similarly, the rivalries really draw attention. And currently our rival is kind of the Washington Spirit. So we're building up that rivalry and we get a lot of attention on that game, but we need more of it.

Anna: I have a kind of funny question. Do you — you just mentioned Washington Spirit being a main rival. Do you almost work with them to make the rivalry more potent?

Yael West: So yeah, it's a funny question. Yeah, a little bit. I think it's in everyone's best interest to build up the rivalry. And so, you know, we're all competitive people and we obviously want to win the game and we want to have more fans than other teams. But in terms of a business sense, you know, a full stadium, wherever we're going, if it's home or away, is important. It's important to have people watching the game. We all want the same thing when it comes to that. The result in the field is where, you know obviously we've been trying to get the better of one another, but absolutely it's a team effort at the same time as it is a competition.

Anna: I do think that despite all this very incredible momentum, the infrastructure around women's sports hasn't really risen to meet the moment yet. And I'd kind of love to break down some of those key components of that. So for starters, what needs to change about stadium infrastructure to meet demands? And what is so complicated about that? I know that, for instance, what was formerly Red Bull Arena, where Gotham played is now Sports Illustrated Stadium. Does that kind of help make it feel more like your own home?

Yael West: It does a little bit, but you bring up a great point is that the interest, the investment, everything with women's sports and women's soccer is on the rise and it's accelerating so quickly that to professionalize everything supporting it is a huge challenge. And then you think about a stadium and showing up for a home game and a big push that our business team at the club has done is to make it look like Gotham. And it's a huge stadium, so if you think about all the things that need to come in from a temporary basis to brand it as Gotham. It's a significant effort. And that's been a big big focus over the last couple years. You know you want the players and staff to feel like they're at home. You want people on their way into the stadium to realize it's Gotham game day. And so just you know that alone I think has a big impact. But yeah, when you don't own your own stadium, you know, you’re guests and our equipment managers are bringing the equipment back and forth. And we're there's all kinds of considerations that you know, you don't really think of but it is part of it. And it's part of you know we see now a few clubs have, well, Kansas City Current has led the way in terms of having the first women-specific soccer stadium. That's an incredible, incredible moment.

Anna: I'd love to know your thoughts on, like, the relationship between the way women's spots are presented and how people kind of respond to them.

Yael West: So the hardcore women's sports fans are going to find the games. And I think we're at the point now where there has been a push in a momentum to where they're available which is — it's an improvement over, you know, when I was playing I think about how many, my parents couldn't watch many of my games. If they weren't the few televised games, even my family couldn't watch, let alone you know fans, people who might invest, businesses who might sponsor. It wasn't out there.

Anna: He's on ESPN 17, yeah.

Yael West: Or yeah, people would be streaming something on something. You'd have to find some strange link somewhere. And so I think the availability of the games and the broadcast has improved significantly. That being said, you walk into — I don't really follow other sports. I'm a soccer person. But if I turn on the TV for one second, if I walk into a bar, I'm being bombarded. It's just on the screen. It's being talked about. It's on my social media. I don't have to choose if I know about the players. They're being sent my way all day. And that is different than women's sports. Women's sports, you have to go seek it out. You have to talk to the lobby of the hotel and ask them to change the channel to put on the women's game. Or the bar, the restaurant, wherever it might just have something on. And that, I think, really makes a difference. I think just the fact that when things are on in the background, or when you're just, you can't help but see them, it really, it changes the nature of the public awareness. So I think that's the next level for where women's sports needs to go. And we're not there yet. To your point, sometimes it is a little bit difficult to find the games. They're there if you want to find them and people do want to find them, which is great, but how do we get it to the point where you can't avoid them even if you don't want to?

Anna: Yeah, yeah. How does on a personal level, how does this moment make you feel? I think in my head, the politically correct thing to say would be like, we're happy and we're thankful. But does it — are you kind of, like, pissed off at all that it's taken this long or that maybe you couldn't engage in this momentum when you were a player?

Yael West: You know, that's really interesting. I've thought of that. I'm like, “is there any way in which I feel kind of like I maybe personally missed out on something?” I will say, you know, I share this openly because I think it is important. In my 10th year as a professional player, having been on the U.S. Women's National Team a bit, I made $21,000 in my playing contract. And so, at the time I thought that was good. But now that I think about it, I was very stressed. I had to have — I started a business on the side. I was coaching players in the hot sun the day before the game because I had to make extra money. It's really different now for our players and I feel very proud of that. I don't — I recognize the time that I took part and actually feel really proud of hopefully playing an important role in moving the game to where it is now, as have many players who have advocated and stuck with it and made the product good even when people weren't watching or weren't paying. I think the thing I look at now is the support and what it takes to be supported to actually perform at your best. And we're, there's still a long way to go, but with everything from the physical training, that the access to recovery tool, the access the performance, of medical, especially what we have at Gotham, it's really next level. The type of testing our athletes go through to maximize their individual athletic potential, to flag risks of injury. And we have a full-time mental performance coach. We have a chef and performance nutritionist. And I think about just all the other things that go into the experience to allow you to perform in the field. Which like I said, we still have room to grow. Certainly in women's sports, women's soccer, at Gotham. But I think that I could've really benefited from a sports psychologist. I could have really benefited from someone looking at my athletic profile. I'm tall and lanky. I shouldn't be doing the same training as like a short, explosive player. And I was working so hard, but didn't have the same type of support our players have, you know, coaches breaking down nuances of video, even in training. And it's normal. This is what men have had in sports for years and years, but it is newer in women's soccer. And that's the part that I feel a little bit like, I wonder if I played now, how much better of a player would I have been? And that, I can never answer it, but that has gone through my head.

Anna: I was actually listening to an interview you did with ESPN about a year ago, and in it, you said that you didn't feel like you accomplished what you wanted to as a player, which I thought was very honest and interesting, and do you still feel that way?

Yael West: Yeah, I think it'll, maybe it'll fade over time. I mean, I wanted to play in a World Cup and play in the Olympics. My goal was to be, I wanted to be the best women's soccer player in the world. I can only say that now. I would have been embarrassed to say that kind of towards the tail end of my playing career.

Anna: Why would you be embarrassed by that?

Yael West: Well, because I wasn't that. There was some gap. If you look at everyone in the world, and I said that, and they looked at my career resume, it looks like I got really close. But when you're in it, and you're not getting called in with the national team, and you wanted to be the captain of that team, it feels like the gap is so big. So as a player, yeah, I think I definitely — I had goals on my list that I didn't accomplish. Now looking back, I feel very proud of who I was as a player and how I was respected by, you know, other top players I played with but yeah I have unfinished business that I will not be able to finish on the field. But I get an incredible amount of joy from seeing the players at Gotham succeed and seeing others live the dream and go so much further beyond what I was able to as a player. Even I watch our team play, and I mean what the players are doing on the field is so far beyond what I was able do as a player and it's really impressive and I'm very proud of it but I do yeah I had some things on my to do list I never did.

Anna: Do you think that that's purely just the monetary investment, meaning these things that, for example, as you just mentioned, the Gotham players are able to do now, is that, I mean, I would imagine it's not just them physically being more capable. I mean maybe they have become physically more capable because of monetary investment.

Yael West: I do think investment in the women's game has helped to create a depth of talent. Like it was always competitive in the U.S. and we always had a lot of talent in the U.S. But now there's a league full of talent rather than a player pool for the U.S. Women's National Team only. And then you look around the globe and you know it's really struck me with our scouting department, is even from the time I started this role about four and a half years ago now till now, the depth of town in the world game is significantly, significantly stronger. You see young, exciting players coming up. There's a transfer market where clubs are paying real money to get talented players. And I think the investment in the game has changed that, you know, when there's money on the line and when there is an investment in — the players have always worked hard and always competed. But when there’s something to, some reward on the other side of that, it increases the competition, it increases the ruthlessness of the decisions. And I think it's a spiral. So I certainly think investment has played a role. Especially I'd say in the world game, there's always been some catch up to play with the U.S. And I think we're seeing that pay off.

Anna: Meaning the world is trying to catch up with the U.S. Or vice versa?

Yael West: I think so, I think in the world game, investment especially in the national teams, like the U.S. Women's National Team has historically had, even when that team has had to fight for better standards, better pay, they have been kind of the one that everyone else is trying to follow. Preparation for major tournaments, investment in youth national teams that lead to the senior national team. And so, yeah, I think the world in a lot of ways is playing catch up to where the U.S. has been. From a league standpoint, that's a bit different, because NWSL I still do think is part of leading the way, but there are other top clubs around the world in the women's game that are really investing pretty significantly now compared to what was in the past.

Anna: Do you know what's funny is, I think everything you just said makes a lot of sense. It feels like the complete opposite for the men's side. Meaning I feel as though the men’s team is trying to play catch up with the rest of the world. And what does it mean to you that soccer is the sport here that is leading the way from a women's perspective?

Yael West: That's very interesting because that's true historically, you know, that there's a huge history of the game, the men's game in other places and we're young in comparison to that in the U.S. on the men’s side, and kind of the opposite on the women's side. We were one of the first and we kind of start — maybe you know started the trend. I think NWSL and the U S's role in women's soccer has actually, it fundamentally changes the global landscape of the game. So if you look at the men's game, the top talent, the top clubs are in Europe. And then there are emerging leagues competing to be right underneath that. And I'd say MLS is, you know, MLS is taking players from some of those clubs at the later stages of their career and developing players to maybe go sign for a really big club in Europe. And the women's game, NWSL is right up there with the top leagues in Europe and elsewhere. And so I think, you know, I'd say even in North America like the league in Mexico. They've just launched a league in Canada on the women's side. There really is a global landscape developing in the women's game that's very different because of NWSL's role in the women's game and being right at the top with a couple of, I'd say there's a couple other European leagues kind of leading the way alongside, especially in England right now. But it's definitely, yeah, it's very different and it kind of is flipped on its head.

Anna: Yeah. I mean, I remember watching the last Women's World Cup and it felt like there was so much pressure surrounding the women's teams performance because it almost felt like we had finally garnered that mass audience base and, which also included a lot of men. And then if we didn't do well, we might lose the audience base. Is that like pressure to constantly perform at a level of excellence to keep audiences interested, something you feel?

Yael West: I think that comes with being at the top and the target is on our back. No other, I think, soccer country in the world expects to win the World Cup and anything less than winning the World cup is failure, really. I mean, that's a unique position to be in. There might be a couple hopeful teams on the men's side, but that's the reality is that the US women's national team is expected to win a gold medal and win the World Cup, and if they don't, even losing in the championship, or getting to the semi-final is disappointing. And that's a privileged position to be in, but yes, it's an incredible amount of pressure. And I do think for many years, the success of the women's national team in the U.S., and still now, really does, it correlates to the level of interest. Like if we're gonna get a big buzz, we need to have success in that tournament. We need to a new star emerge in that tournament who's gonna hopefully play for an NWSL club. And those are things we talk about. But we're still, we're, we are moving in that direction, but it is an incredible amount of pressure, as you said, and it has a significant influence on the game, and the viewership in NWSL and kind of the spike we get or don't get based on the performance of the U.S. Women's National Team.

Anna: Kind of getting into more, a little bit more in the conversation around, like, I don't want to say men versus women, but that tends to be where things go. Um, I feel like a lot of times the gut instinct is to target men as a desired audience, because I think unfortunately, fortunately or unfortunately, we've culturally given them the power to determine whether — whether or not a women's sport is valid. But then I think about the audience for men's sports and I don't think that those are equally distributed by gender either. Who should be the — who should we be targeting as an audience for women's sports?

Yael West: I think we're still learning that and I definitely don't think it's just men or just women. I think it is also incorrect to think that only women are interested. So I think either way, to me, 50-50, I do think men should be and are interested in women's sports, especially at the highest level. You're watching the top players in the world compete. It's extremely entertaining. There's great stories. There are other rivalries emerging. There are these wonderful household names. I believe it's about building in households and it's building culture and a legacy that you pass down is that you're gonna be a Gotham supporter because your dad and your mom were Gotham supporters. And that's what we haven't yet seen because we haven't been around long enough for that. But I think that's where it needs to go. So I don't know, I don't think about it in terms of who we're targeting outside of, I think family legacy is very important in terms of targeting and to start to build it young and to have young soccer players have an affinity towards an affiliation with Gotham. A feeling of that they recognize the brand, that they went to a Gotham game, got their face painted, whatever was fun about it. 

Anna: I heard the face painting at the Gotham games is it.

Yael West: It's legit, glitter, everything. I haven't done it yet myself, but yes. But I think that's where it starts because one day that young boy or young girl will have a positive feeling and a memory where they will wanna take their family or their significant other, their whoever it is, to a game because they have a positive memory about it. And that takes a really long time to build.

Anna: Definitely, and I think like when women are building up their version of something in comparison to men's they want to mimic the way the men have done it. But I think with women's sports it it almost seems like a miss to do that, because as you just said like I think the family legacy thing is so important and when I think about two, like, for example I know that the New York Liberty has really — the WNBA team — has really capitalized on bringing in families because I mean you can't afford to bring like a five person family to a Knicks game. Like that’s like $2,000, you know what I mean? But with the Liberty, I know that they've really been trying to focus on bringing in families and how that audience kind of looks different. Should we be kind of creating our own measures for success as opposed to just trying to compare where women's sports are to men's?

Yael West: I think so. I think it's a little bit of everything, you know, for the same reason somebody would want to go watch a top men's sporting event, that still exists on the women's side. Like what's happening on the field, the court, the arena, whatever it is, is that enticing. And you're there to watch a really, you know, a wonderful competition and a wonderful display of talent and ability. And at the same time, it can look very different. And I think you make some good points. You know, women's soccer in particular, I think women's sports is appealing to a lot of people because it's very inclusive. If people don't feel welcome in other sporting environments, a women's soccer game is a place where everyone can feel welcome. You can come as you are, you can bring whoever you love, and you are welcome. And you're not just welcome, but you're embraced and celebrated. And that is a bit unique to women's sports. But I think as women's sports emerges as a business and continues to, well it's emerged as a business, it's on the map. Continues to, I'd say, evolve as a business. We're gonna learn a lot more and learn the ways in which it is differentiated. And like you said, we need unique KPIs. And also the ways in which nothing changes. The sport is a sport and you're there to watch top competition and you should know kind of and learn when to cheer and be there to actually watch the game too. So all of it can be true. And I think that's what's beautiful about it is that it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Anna: I love how you think of this as being very much like a narrative, like how you're, for example, when you mentioned the rivalries. Not inventing them but really like kind of putting pressure on them and in building those up, and I think too, I know all over TikTok right now I'm seeing videos of fights happening like during WNBA games and how that's like really in the comment section people are saying oh this is so good for the WNBA. Is it all just about — is it just about storytelling almost that you think that where we need that boost?

Yael West: I think storytelling is powerful. Like what are you watching? Why should you be interested? And what would make you really care and feel it on a deeper level? I think that's important. Inspiration, you know, people spend money on things that they're inspired by, that empower them. It's more than just wanting a team to win just because. Only the players on the field, probably, and me and the coaches, care that much about the result of each game. But it's the feeling that it evokes. And that's why I do think narratives are really important. When you follow Gotham FC, why do you care? What are you following? What do we stand for? Why are you part of our family as opposed to anything else you could focus on or spend your time on? And I think it needs to evoke a deep feeling of belonging, of impact, of importance, and of yeah, the desire to conquer and lift trophies and have the Gotham badge. When you wear your Gotham jersey in Europe or South America, wherever you go. That people say, “oh yeah, you support Gotham, interesting.” So there is something broader, and I think the narrative is very important, and it gives people a feeling of, yeah, I'd say inspiration and empowerment to be part of something and to feel that by supporting it, you are part of a family.

Anna: One thing I think is interesting and I think this is just a U.S. thing is, it feels like basketball just has more of an infrastructure in American lives than soccer does. I just don't even know — how you build that up you know

Yael West: I think it takes time, like if you just think about culturally, there are basketball courts everywhere. Like there's been a push to actually put little soccer goals on basketball courts, but you know, when kids are growing up, one, especially on the men's and boys side, you know, you can make a lot of money. So like that could be a, it's an exciting thing to try to pursue. There are courts everywhere. So, you're hanging out with friends or whatever, you have a basketball or like you're playing basketball. People aren't really doing that with soccer in the U.S. It's not the same. And it's — when you think about historically, you know, people have grown up for generations seeing parents wearing basketball jerseys and are they even called jerseys?

Anna: Yeah

Yael West: I'm using soccer lingo, like, I think it's...

Anna: Jerseys yes. I feel like well the one, I think the only main difference is with soccer is the kit

Yael West: Kit, yeah, I wouldn't say a basketball kit, Okay yeah. I'm like, it's called a jersey, though I had to check myself on that. Yeah, but but it's just like you recognize the logos and stuff and I think soccer is follow — I think it takes a lot of years. And a lot it takes generational passing things down, kids recognizing something because their parent wore it, or talked about it, or watched on TV. You know basketball has been available to watch on TV, has been talked about on ESPN Sports Center forever. Yeah, forever for years and years. And soccer hasn't yet. But yeah, just part of, it's part of what you do. It's part what I'm sure was on TV and what gets talked about at the dinner table. And I think, you know, I think in some families, soccer is like that already, but there's a lot of competing interests in the U.S., whereas soccer is the sport everywhere else in the world. It's basketball, football, baseball combined. So we have competing interests, but also a long history I think to catch up to.

Anna: Does, I guess this general rise in popularity feel palpable to you in your everyday life, like aside, thinking of people you interact with outside of the sports world?

Yael West: It does to some extent. I've always been really immersed in a world and a community that appreciates women's soccer. And way before anyone else did, I think I, in the family in which I was raised and the youth soccer community that raised me always felt like this about the women's game, which is really special. And I realize now how special it was, but I was saying before we started recording, I was walking with my kids the other day on a day off and I had my Gotham shorts on and we stopped at a lemonade stand. Lemonade and bracelet stand, which is where I got this. But the people there, actually one of the girls making lemonade said, “oh, do you play for Gotham?” Which I was honored, she thought I was a player first. She didn't say they work for Gotham, probably because I was wearing a very sportsy outfit. But they knew Gotham and they recognized the logo. I didn't say anything, I didn't have a soccer ball with me, and then we had a conversation. And then when we came back,

Anna: You didn't have a speech ready.

Yael West:  Yeah, no, I didn't have a speech. And when we came back by, you know, one of their neighbors said, “Oh, can you get an autograph?” They didn't know who I was, but “ Can I get an autograph?” I was like, “you told them I'm not a player, right?” But there is a recognition. You know, I see — I see Gotham stickers in people's cars. I see things around that lead, that do make me feel really proud and impressed about the progress we've made. I still think there's so much room to go with it. But I do feel — I feel very blessed in the sense that my paradigm all along, since I was seven years old and began the sport, was this is the most important thing. This is the world game that people are paying attention to, and you could start your journey here and be a world star. That's what I always thought was possible, which is very powerful. But it is really true, is that the recognition and the attention to what we're doing, the following on social media, all of it is at a totally different level than what it has been.

Anna: I guess like kind of switching gears a little bit. I know that the NWSL recently signed a new CBA last year, meaning collective bargaining agreement. What's in the contract, like what's the significance of that?

Yael West: It's a really significant change in terms of how the league is run, and I'd say the biggest thing has to do with, there's essentially complete free agency now. Which has actually happened much quicker than MLS. And the interesting thing for women's soccer is that we are, NWSL and MLS are both in the American — they're both part of the American sports model — so you have the college draft and trades and the kind of that, that feeling, an All-Star game. And not yet in NWSL, but that feeling, but also are part of a world game and landscape that doesn't have any of that, where you sign a contract and either you decide, mutually decide at some point to make a change, or you wait till your contract's up and then you sign another contract, and you as a player, you would never get traded, that's just not part of the, the idea that you would get distributed in a draft situation, just get picked by a team, that doesn't happen anywhere in the world game of soccer. 

Anna: The word that came to mind while you were describing all that was just autonomy. Is that kind of how you describe it, too?.

Yael West: Absolutely, and that there's a lot of, yeah, players have autonomy now over their playing situations and ability to negotiate with whichever team they see fit as free agents, which it changes, from a club perspective, it changes how we evaluate our roster, how we identify talent, how we recruit, and everything, the way we think about ourselves is we need to be a destination where people wanna be. We can't just bank on having their rights and forcing them to stay, not that we would do that anyway. But it really yeah changes a lot about the game.

Anna: So one other question that we've been asking all of our guests has been, um, what's the most unruly thing you did this week?

Yael West: Oh, unruly thing. Well yeah i have, so i have two toddlers so basically anything i do — well they're a little bit older than toddlers, a five-year-old and three-year old, so anything i do with them really is on the charts here. But yeah i'd say, i did pay basically pay ten dollars for this bracelet. It's lovely, and yeah my kids have been running around naked all over the place in the heat and I'm just letting it go.

Anna: I think that those are unruly, yet extremely relatable and acceptable.

Yael West: Yes, yes. Thank you. I'm glad they fit both bucket.

Anna: Thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed talking about this and I'm excited to see how Gotham does the rest of the season.

Yael West: Yeah, thank you. No, it's really fun to talk about and I'm looking forward to getting other people having the same conversations.

SEGMENT:

Anna: Okay, we're gonna do a little exercise called Unruly Rewind, where we ask you some nostalgia-based sports questions.

Yael West: Ok.

Anna: Who was your favorite soccer player growing up? 

Yael West: Michelle Akers. 

Anna: What's the first game you remember watching?

Yael West: So my dad, because I was very serious, but we couldn't watch soccer in the U.S., like there wasn't anything we could watch from Europe. My dad found some random streaming thing where we could watched SerieA, which is the Italian league. So I remember watching Parma versus Roma, and I'm not gonna do it right now, but we were using very bad Italian accents and we were trying to mimic what we were hearing. 

Anna: Uh, what's the first game you remember playing in?

Yael West: So I played for the Orange Bullets, that was my rec team. And yeah, we played, I think there were no goalkeepers, I don't even know how many players were on the field. And I didn't know the rules at all, I knew nothing about soccer when I started, but I was in a game.

Anna: And that counts. My only memory of a soccer game was I think I went and got on the field and then the ball hit me in the head, and I know now that that's something that's supposed to kind of happen.

Yael West: Well it’s not supposed to hit you. You're supposed to head the ball.

Anna: Hit the ball. Okay, well then that's fair then because then I went to the bench and I was like, “I'm out. I'm not doing it anymore.” What's a pre-game ritual that kind of stuck with you over the years?

Yael West: So I was always very calm before the game. I would like to nap and, like, prepare my body, and I would listen to strangely kind of downer music. Like I wouldn't get pumped up. I wouldn't dance in the locker room or anything like that. I wouldn't do that anyway because I'm bad at dancing. But yeah, I would honestly would take — I would sleep before the games. And I think now, now I think it was because of my performance anxiety. I wasn't, I actually needed help with that. But yeah very low key resting type behavior.

Anna: Who was your favorite player to play against?

Yael West: Play against. So yeah, typically it's not a good thing if you want to play against someone, but I will say there were a couple times very early in my professional career I got to play against Kelly Smith who is a very famous English player, one of the best women's players ever. And that for me was really special. She's a player I really admired and I got to take the field against her, and she definitely ran circles around me and my team at various moments. But It was one of those kind of big moments for me as a new professional to play against someone who I really idolized.

Anna: Okay, pick one. The Big Green or Bend It Like Beckham?

Yael West: The Big Green, this is one thing I know a lot about. We could talk about The Big Green and we could do a whole other podcast on it.

Anna: Yep. Well, I guess I'll just tack on an additional episode to the season.

Yael West: Yes, I feel I'm very passionate about that question you just asked.

Anna: Um, okay so okay what's a moment in women's sports history that you remember witnessing when you were growing up that really, like, impacted the trajectory of your life or your career?

Yael West: So I think the common answer will be mine, too, and this is the 99 World Cup. And I'd say, though, not just the team winning, that was the culmination of a really momentous event and movement for women's soccer in the U.S. But I got to go watch the team train a little bit ahead of the opening match. The opening match was at what now is MetLife. I don't even know what it was called back then. And I got to watch them train up close and personal. I can still remember because I was such a sponge for this. I remember the drills they were doing and like some of the things they were doing and I got to kick the ball back a couple of times to the team. And I felt so tied to that team because I got to see them a little bit. And I got to meet Brandy Chastain before the tournament when, and you know, she ended up becoming the big star. And that was extremely impactful in my life as a young aspiring athlete.

Anna: Was that the tournament, the famous moment? 

Yael West: Yeah. Yeah. 

Anna: What do you think of that?

Yael West: You mean just her ripping her shirt up? Yeah, I think, I mean it's so iconic and it's such a cultural soccer celebration to take off your shirt. Now they give yellow cards if you do it, so it's changed. But that was the way you celebrated. If you're a footballer, you celebrate like that. So yeah, I think it was really, it was a big statement for so many reasons. It's like, she just won the World Cup and that was her first instinct to do like you'd see the men do, you just rip off your shirt. But yeah, such an — it's such an important moment for so many reasons.

Anna: And then what advice would you give to yourself as a young athlete?

Yael West: Yeah, I think I really took the, you know, get comfortable being uncomfortable a little bit too far. I was out of my comfort zone a lot. I think I would go back and say, you know, “find a little more time where you feel comfortable and supported and not under so much pressure.” I really tried to maximize in every way and a lot of that was very high pressure. And I think that I could have done with a bit of a balance.

Anna: I think we all need a little bit more balance.

Yael West: Yeah, I'm not good at balance.

Anna: Okay, thanks for playing.

Yael: That was easier than you set me up to think

Anna: I tried to scare you with it first.

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