Welcome to Unruly Season 2

A podcast from Flamingo and Audacy’s Pineapple Street Studios

At Flamingo, we know that women deal with a lot: the expected, unexpected, and everything in between. That’s why we created Unruly. Season 1 was all about navigating a world that loves to categorize, analyze, and discuss women’s bodies; Season 2 has the same spirit but a different bent. Instead of talking about regulation, we’re talking about conversation.

Because we believe that if women are talking about it, it’s important. Whether we’re discussing dating in a recession, the way TikTok is shaping girlhood, consumer capitalism, or how to survive that annual girls trip, we’re giving women the opportunity to be their truest, most flamboyant selves. New episodes drop on Wednesdays.

INTRO:

Anna: Hi, everyone. So I am here with a woman who needs no introduction, but I will go ahead and do it because my mom is listening. We are here with Tinx, content creator, podcaster, writer, multi-hyphenate. We're so happy you could be here. 

Tinx: Thank you so much for having me. 

INTERVIEW:

Anna: My first question is, who... Who calls you Christina and who calls you Tinx? 

Tinx: Oh gosh, my mom still calls me Christina. I have a few friends that choose Christina over Tinx, but mostly everybody. Mostly everybody calls me Tinx.

Anna:  I like that. I mean, I think the thing about you now is you're kind of this 21st century Renaissance woman at this point. You host a podcast, design products, all these kinds of things. What point were you like, OK, the next thing I'm going to do is write a novel? 

Tinx:  I think last year, or I guess two years ago, I really started wanting to do something that was purely creative and something that was kind of a little bit separate from me. And I loved writing my little rich mom characters on my Instagram, and I just kept thinking, what would it happen if I finished one of these women's stories? And I was just ready to do something that was more. That there was separation between me and the project. So that, you know. 

Anna: The book. Give me your like hot, your hot like 10 second pitch. 

Tinx:  So Hotter in the Hamptons is a spicy bee tree that follows influencer Lola on a whirlwind summer fling that she embarks on after her life is torn to pieces. 

Anna: Yeah, I mean, and obviously important, Tink's lore, you were an English major. And I was a creative writing major. And as I know and have been told by other English majors, they are not the same thing. But did you do creative writing in college specifically? 

Tinx: Yeah, I took a bunch of creative writing classes, so it was more of a blend, but I loved all things reading and writing in college, and I just, I loved it all. 

Anna: I fear all of my college creative classes where people like trauma dumping. Yeah. 

Tinx: Honestly I kind of I kind of like skipped that which is great yeah I feel like I would have that word have really annoyed me but we did we had a lot of really great prompts and I just love that you could just write anything you can just like make it up and I love the freedom of that so it was nice to return to something that felt so freeing without any-

Anna: How long did you work on it? 

Tinx: The book? So it was like last year, like, oh god, I guess like a year and a half because it was, yeah, it was right around Christmas time that I called my agent and I had written a proposal for another non-fiction book and we were about to take it out and I was like, I just have this idea for this universe of cool women who are really complicated and they all go on these adventures and they look really fabulous doing it and my agent was like. This is cool, we should do this. 

Anna: So what was the, do you feel like you said it definitely came from your characters on TikTok? What made you think this book?

Tinx: Honestly, Lola was like the character that dropped into my head. I had some inspiration from my followers. They're my number one inspiration and some of the questions that they were asking me on AMA kind of got me thinking, this is a fantasy that a lot of women have. And so I was kind of inspired by them as always. And I also, I just had this idea of like a book that was pure escapism in the Hamptons and. About a protagonist that was kind of unlikable, but she grows throughout it, so. She does. 

Anna: She does. She like gets in there, yeah. 

Tinx: Yeah she does we're all works in progress I just like when I was reading a lot of romance in preparation for writing this book I loved it I loved how it made me feel I love like the escapism of it all but I just felt like the characters were oftentimes like one-dimensional because they're so perfect yes and like of course it's fun to read about like princesses and you know princes and like whatever but I Just wanted a girl so that my girls can read it and be like, oh, well she's fucked up and I'm a little bit fucked up too and that's okay because we all are.

Anna: And she could still have win. Yeah, exactly. No, I feel that way. I love romance novels. I actually did some of my thesis work in journalism school for it. And I think the thing about romance novels is they're just so predictable. And I in some ways that is both comforting and the reason they get written off. 

Tinx: Totally yeah I like without giving anything away I also wanted the book to reflect like what a lot of my followers are going through and what they're experiencing and you know I I wanted to reflect the times that we're living in.

Anna: I guess like have you always been a romance girlie or is it something new? 

Tinx: No, it's newer for me. I have a couple of my friends who got really into it, and then I had read this article that was like, romance books are the only category that's growing, and I obviously see the hype on booktalk, so I was really interested to learn more, and it's a very tight-knit community, and they have a lot of rules and a lot things that they like a certain way. So I was both inspired and intimidated by the romance. Well, it was the tropes. 

Anna: Right, it's all about the tropes. Do you have a favorite trope?

Tinx: I mean, I love Enemies to Lovers. I think it's very satisfying, but again, my book doesn't necessarily fit the mold of traditional romance. And we honestly came, we had a couple meetings with publishers and they were like, yeah, no one's gonna go for this ending. And I was like, well, I think that's okay. I think I'm okay with that. I want people to, I wanna make a new little area for girls who like romance, but also kind of want it to be a little real.  

Anna:  The thing with romance novels is it's always about having like H.E.A. Happily ever After. And I'm like, I think everyone has their own definition. Totally. Because I felt even, I had heard rumblings of that, of maybe the book going along a different path before I had finished it. And I got to the end and I was like, I don't get what everyone's yappin' about. Like this is, this is it. This is it! Totally, it is. 

Tinx: It's just like thought about in a new way. Yeah.

Anna: I also think too like in this world where like Charlie, Chappell, Sabrina, Tyla, Dochi like they're ruling the world right now and like hyper femininity is like dominating the culture. We still live in the real world which means like romance novels and anything that can be like designated as a beach read is kind of like written off. Like as a newly to the romance author, what are some of the like misconceptions you feel like? Particularly you wanted to maybe come up against as you wrote this. 

Tinx: I just think that the idea that they're not valuable is so silly and so obviously false to me. I think that escapism and art in that form is so important now more than ever. I really believe we need to escape. We need to allow for creativity and levity. And so I think just that's what I want to challenge. I'm so proud to say that my book is a beach read. Like that's how I want it. To be known and I, for me, I'm just trying to change the perception that that's not cool and valuable because I think it is. I hope I write 20 beach reads. I'm like. 

Anna: And then I guess we talked a little bit about this, but how this is truly one of the only industries within the book industry that's actually growing or the only genres. Do you think that's happening? 

Tinx: To me, I always make the thing that I want to consume, whether it's a TikTok, a podcast, a book. And I just think that people like escapism. People wanna read about love and fun and sex and happiness. And for me, like I wanted to really amp those things up and put it all against this beautiful backdrop because the world is a really scary place now and we need a minute. 

ANNA: I feel like we've. It seems like, though, the larger culture often feels a lot of disdain and even outright makes fun of these things women love, like Taylor Swift and even K-pop and Twilight, which I, again, will ride for Twilight. But why?

Tinx: I think that just to be a woman is just to be criticized every step of the way. I just don't think that we're there yet in terms of everything that we do is either too basic or too this or too pick me or too slutty or whatever. And I think it's just like to exist as a woman is just like, to be made fun of, which is very sad. And it's all the more reason to do exactly what you want and try to ignore. Those criticisms because, I mean, what does it matter if you like it, you like

Anna: 100% agree with that. I think that's just really, yes, absolutely. I wanna go back to one thing you just said too, which was things getting a little slutty. What was it like writing a steamy novel?

Tinx: I mean, I love talking about sex. I always have. And we talk about it a lot on my show and in my community. So it was honestly really fun. It was great.

Anna:  I feel like I would initially have, just because I think obviously women are kind of encouraged to kind of downplay that part of them, I feel I would have secondhand embarrassment, maybe at writing it at first. Did you go through that at all? 

Tinx: I feel like sometimes I have pangs now where I'm like, oh, like I hate that that's in my writing. Like, why did I do that? But then I'm, like, we're all gonna die, who cares? Which is kind of how I feel about most things.

Anna: When I was in journalism school, one thing that I was super interested in was audiobook narrators. And I reached, I was like, I'm going to do an article on this or whatever. You did journalism as well, so I'm sure you kind of like, yeah, fashion journalism, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I reached out to. Woman who's audiobook narrator and she had a couple romance novels under her belt and I was like oh cool I'll see if I can get a hold of her and then of course when you're doing a project like this you're like I gotta reach out to multiple people to make sure that I actually find someone and so I reached out to another one she had like a much more broad list of romance novels. It turns out they were the same person. 

Tinx: Oh my God.

Anna: And she had to have an entirely different like name for the romance novel audiobooks because people would Just write her off for any other type of novel. That's so crazy, and it just pissed me off.

Tinx: We forget how puritanical America is. It's really, its roots are all super puritan. And also very shame-based. Super shame- based. People just deal with an incredible amount of shame when it comes to sexuality, and fantasy, that was also part of the inspiration for this book. Yeah, I just, it's really insane to me that people have so much shame around sexuality but they don't have shame around some other stuff that they find really actually insane. 

Anna: Well, too, and I was I when I opened I got we got I got the book we ordered like a ton of pre-orders because we're gonna like give them out to followers and We I opened the book and I think I opened it to like she's already like soaking wet and I-

Tinx: You're like, oh my god, you're like what are we giving to people? Yeah, but I'm 

Anna: I don't know. I think it's also in the idea of normalizing. Not normalizing, but let's just bodies are bodies. People are people.

Tinx: Yeah, I think the sooner you kind of accept that, the more fun you can have. 

Anna: Yeah, no, I agree with that. I guess kind of like shifting gears, I had this question that came up that I really want to ask you, which was I think it can feel, having come again from a bit of a writing background, it can be very instinctive to write what you know. I mean, I remember that was all, like I said, people trauma dumping in my creative writing classes in college. But like I dare anyone to like Write something and like not create a character that has even a little bit of them within it I think like how do you as someone who is in the public eye, how do go around like establishing boundaries about parts of yourself you're down to use in your work and parts that are off limits?

Tinx: I mean, obviously I'm an influencer, so I put the job in, which is a big part of me, and I think all the time about becoming boring as an influencer which is where the whole blandification thing came from, which is ironic because a couple months ago we had the whole New York influencers are a boring thing on the air, which was crazy timing. And you were like. I was like, yeah, I think about it all the time, little things. So I think for me, that was like the part of me that I put in and also like Ryan is based on my best friend. So there's that and then for the rest of it, like Lola is honestly a meditation in like my worst nightmare because she's someone who doesn't have a lot of friends. She's someone who totally loses herself in a relationship. She's Someone who like doesn't have a strong hold of her identity, which are all things that really scare me. So I there's parts of things that I know in there, Lola is, she's not me.

Anna: Yeah, no, no. And I think, too, like... How do you navigate the assumptions that this character is an extension of you? 

Tinx: The older I get and the more time I spend in the public eye, I'm like, what people think is their business. If you wanna believe that, then you can. That's okay. I'm really in a place now in my career where I'm just trying to focus on making things that I feel good about and that I've tried hard on. And people's interpretation, they're welcome to that. You know what I mean? If they... If they think that or they want to think that, that's OK. That's not my business, honestly. 

Anna: Yeah, how do you feel like you got there? That sounds really, I'm like thinking about like me getting to the point in my life where I can say that and my therapist would be like I'm done, I'm gonna walk out.

Tinx: Dead no I mean I'm not fully there yet but I think you just you do get like I'm an internet person I've been on the internet for five years like and it's really used to bother me when I would feel misinterpreted yeah and you just drive yourself crazy and like no amount of protests can help you like you can't correct everybody's opinion you can't go like comment by comment line by line and be like well this is why this isn't true like You can't prove everyone wrong. Yeah, you can't. Largely, if people are gonna like you, they're gonna like and if they don't, they're not going to. And letting go of trying to fix my relationship with every person on the internet has been hugely helpful for my mental health. That rocks. You can, again, I'm still a work in progress, but I'm definitely trying to work hard on that right now. 

Anna: Well I also think that's also why I felt I was mentioned to you when you first got here how in a great way, how quickly I read the book. 

Tinx: And I wanted people to read it fast. I don't want anybody to sit there struggling by the pool. I want people to have two glasses of wine. You need to be a little bit of drunk, yes. And you still get the whole point.

Tinx: Like I feel like so much of what I do is so serious and I love that and I feel honored like so many of the, on my show and whatever and I wanted something that was just like escapism. Like fun, lighthearted, like horny, all that stuff. So I don't know if I achieved that but. No I think you did. You know. 

Anna: But I think I read it so quickly because of, I honestly think at this point, having read so many romance novels, like the, similar to what you said before, like the character being perfect or something like that, it almost makes it harder to read at this moment. And I think it was just so engaging to have someone who wasn't perfect. And who like, at moments, like fucks up. Totally. 

Tinx: Totally, she does, she's annoying. She's Carrie Bradshaw-esque in that you're kind of like, why are you doing that? Or like, why are saying that, it's so awkward. But those are the characters that you remember because it's like, if they're perfect, like I read a romance novel last year that I actually really liked, but the main girl was so, I don't remember her name. And it's, I feel like people are gonna remember Lola.

Anna: How did you pick her name?

Tinx: I wanted something that was a name that I wish I had. Like sexy, cool, effortlessly chic, I don't know. 

Anna: When I would play house and I was little mine was crystal 

Tinx: Yeah, it's like, you know, the names you want when you're little. Like I wanted it to be a name like that. 

Anna:  Yeah, yeah, I really like that. I do it is again a name. That's unusual. I think yeah, it's unusual, but it's like

Tinx: Sexy and cool, you know 

Anna: And she is sexy and cool. She is, yeah. She's like, I was reading and I was like, all these women sound so hot. Totally. 

Tinx: Yeah, everybody in the book is hot, like everybody, everybody. 

Anna: I'm like, it should be, it's a sca- 

Tinx: It's escapism, like, I don't want, you know, there's this line where, like they're interviewing in Sex and the City. They're interviewing like Pat Field about like the finances of Carrie's closet. And she's like, they're like, well, how does Carrie have all the money for clothes? And she was like, I don't know, like that's not the issue of this show. And I like, and I just like always think about that. And I'm like, I didn't want there to be any like problems like that in this book. It was like it's, everything's beautiful. Like nothing hurts. 

Anna: I felt like there was so much thought that you put into having her have relationships with both men and women and how I like how that she didn't wanna be put in a box. Yeah. It just really resonated with me. 

Tinx: I think like it's a fantasy that a lot of straight women have is to be with a woman and to try it. And that's something that like I hear a lot from my community. And like I also wanted it to be like a storyline that I've heard, which is like trying something new and exploring, but not wanting to like label yourself. Like I wanted it to be real in that sense. Yeah, like I if it awakens the mind of one person then I've done my job, right? 

Anna: And even just like awakening in the sense that... Maybe it doesn't change how they live their life, but it changes how they view other people living their own. Totally. 

Tinx: Totally yeah I mean I have like a majority straight women who follow me so I think like that was absolutely something in my mind like I could have written this book with just like a hot girl who goes and has an affair in the Hamptons yeah with a guy in the summer yeah I'm sure my audience would have eaten that up too but I just felt like a lot of women have this fantasy and we had been talking about it on AMA like over a year ago with my community and like it just stuck in my head and I kind of just wanted to explore that and have this be, this was like Lola's journey. 

Anna: One thing I, as a, again, as like a writer person, I want to ask you about, what was it like writing an entire book? Like the whole fucking thing. Did you have to do a lot of research? 

Tinx: No, I really like that was the part that was easiest. Like I had. A whole list of all the references that I want to put in it, all the brands, all the places, just because that was really important to me. I really wanted it to be a book where there was so many brands and so many names in it because I love those types of books. Someone I- You really picture it. Yeah, and also just like, I think when I was little and I wanted to be in the glamorous world, like- someone referred to Bergdorf Blondes on my Instagram, they were like, that's what it is, and I loved that book. I loved the book, I loved Devil Wears Prada, I loved The Gossip Girl books because they were so full of brands, and that just, I just wanted to know about that world. So that's really what I wanted to create with this book, is like, you know what flat she's wearing, you know which type of wine she's drinking, you know all that stuff because there's someone who's gonna read it who has them to the Hamptons, and I want them to feel it, I want to feel what that life is like and like. Be able to picture Lola's dress and all that stuff, so.

Anna: Yeah, the Khaite dress, I was.

Tinx: Exactly, yeah.

Anna: I was like, oh, I really want that. I was, like, yellow looks awful on me, but I'm interested.

Tinx: I'm like she has so much she has the best closet. She really does

Anna: I think too, I don't know if this was intentional and maybe I'm totally reading this wrong. I thought it was so interesting, at least what I noticed was a lot of the mention of the specific brands at the beginning and then as she kind of like went through her journey, they dropped off a little and like dropped off a little, and like, I thought that, I don't know if it was intentional, but I thought-

Tinx: Yeah, you can definitely see her growing through her fashion choices. And if you put all the outfits, which I would love if, I mean, I hope when we make the show, you will be able to see it more. But it's like, the clothes are something that I thought about a lot because clothes are really important to her and they've always been a way that she kind of expresses herself in her creativity. And for me too, I guess that's one other commonality we have is such a reflection of how I'm feeling. So if you track like what she wears, it's definitely changes throughout the book because. At first she's just so wrapped up in this world where brands matter so much to her and it's like she puts so much thought into it. And then, you know, by the end of the book she's thinking about clothes in a new, well, she's rethinking about them in a way that she used to, which is more meaningful. 

Anna: Yeah, to her. Yeah. Well was like the tough it was there a point where you got like Intense writers block or you were just like am I are we gonna keep doing? 

Tinx: This or well I mean I'm I'm not queer and that's why I wanted to work with an amazing queer collaborator because like I wanted to get that lived experience so I think-

Anna: Admirable.

Tinx:  No it's the it was the right it was totally and she's an amazing writer and like that was so important to me because again like I think it's so important to have like queer voices when there are queer characters so I mean I think those parts would have been incredibly difficult because I don't have that lived experience but luckily I I worked with someone who did.

Anna: One unruly bit, and I'm not just saying that because I work at this brand and I love a great review at the end of the year, but when she was talking about the stubble that appears around her bikini line, I felt that so hard. I felt so seen. I felt like, why haven't other people talked about this before?

Tinx: I don't you don't read about it such a thing and we all think about it. Yeah everybody so it's like be real

Anna: And then what was another one? Oh, this I also loved. Good sex is about communication. The idea of someone not knowing what to do with my body is not necessarily a turn on for me. I, again. Because, yeah, that sounds shitty, yeah. You get it, I get it. We all get it and it's also something that I, it almost makes me wanna stand up for myself more, not in my sex life or anything like that, but just like, hey, I don't really wanna do that. 

Tinx: Like that the level of like clarity that she's able to like in that moment is like something I aspire to as well. 

Anna: And then of course, one part where I felt like I really just like. Felt, again, the pains of being a woman when she's talking about, let's see here. She wanted to meet Emmett, she wanted to make clothes, she wanted back the trust of her followers, she wanted Allie, but she didn't want Allie to ignore her, but maybe wanted Justin, and it's like. 

Tinx: That's literally how I feel at all times. I'm like, you can't have between sleep, friends, romance, job, and working out, and fun. There's six, I always say this to my friends. You can only have two, balls in the air at the time. The rest of the stuff is like complete disaster. You can't it all at the same time. I just feel like that all the time. I'm like, I want good skin, but I want to go out, but I wanna work hard, but wanna have fun, and I wanna do that. That's basically being a woman. 

Anna: I will be asking everyone on the show this, um, what's the most unruly thing you've done this week

Tinx: What is the most unruly thing I've done? I hope that it's this weekend. I hope I haven't done it yet. It's coming. And I hope it involves like being flirty with someone. 

Anna: We are going to a little story time, which is dot, dot, dot, finish the sentence. So I'm going to give you a prompt, and you can go ahead and finish the sentences. OK, I love it. Sound fair? Yeah. Most random place you've ever met a suitor.

Tinx: Oh my god where is the most random place i don't know vacation that's so boring give me give me a place The Galapagos Islands that's pretty good that was that was unique yeah Yep, all right. 

Anna: That's about as specific as one could get. Quickest I've ever gotten the ick. 

Tinx: Before I've met them because it's like an online thing like they have something really bad on their IG or something

Anna: What's the like actual, this is even written down, best app pick up line. 

Tinx: I usually say what's your uber rating mm-hmm it's a good like chatty starter yeah or I say come home the kids miss you because it's like if you if you don't banter back to that then like we're never gonna make it so yeah

Anna: My, I met my boyfriend on Tinder. We've been together for eight years. Oh my God. Which I'm like, okay. But his first, his was so sincere. What did he say? I had a picture of me in Prague because I was a study abroad girlie during my lipstick phase. And he was like, is that Prague in your background? And I was like aw, it is. That's cute. 

Tinx: The apps used to be really good. 

Anna: They did! 

Tinx: They're they used to be so so so useful and now they're trash. Yeah, it's so sad 

Anna: I like to look at and like look at people's profiles of like my friends. 

Tinx:  Not good anymore.

Anna: Yeah, but you got you got out. I got out let's see. Let's see hopefully we don't 

Tinx: Oh, you won't, you will not. 

Anna:  Most romantic gesture I've ever seen was…

Tinx: One time a guy, he paid my parking ticket for me because he saw that it was gonna, and I just thought that was the best thing ever.

Anna:  I think that is…

Tinx:  I knew you, I didn't know how to pay it, you know? And I was like, wow. And that's acts of service, that's my favorite anyway.

Anna: Acts of service. I also think too, like, buy me flowers, they die, pay this parking ticket. Exactly. I'm not on some fucking list later. Yes. A date you wish never happened. 

Tinx: Oh my god, I had a really boring one a couple weeks ago. It was just so boring. It was so boring, I was bored to tears. I was like, why didn't you see Saltburn? And he was like... We were talking about it and he was like, I don't know, just seemed a bit boring. He had just such an annoying answer to it and I was, we're so not compatible. 

Anna: I think also, too, once you get one of those answers, you're like, all right, I'm done. You're not going to. 

Tinx: You're not coming back from this. No, it was so bad. Craziest text you've ever sent. Oh, I've sent some batshit ones. Like, absolutely batshit. That's right. Yeah, it's fun to get. It's fun, to like, unload. 

Anna: I did the one thing where you screenshot it and then I accidentally sent it to him. I've done that. I did that to a famous person. And I was like, I wanted you to see it from my perspective. 

Tinx: I didn't I didn’t I couldn't lie. I said I'm really sorry, and he was like were you sending that to your therapist and I said Yeah, cuz I was-

Anna: You're like, well, don't do things that require me to screenshot your text. OK, and then, of course, the most unruly thing you've ever done on a date. 

Tinx: Hmm, on a date, I don't know, I probably left really fast. But I think that's a good type of unruly, because if you're not feeling it, get out.

Anna:  I think on my third date, I was a little twisted and just bit his lip so hard. Oh, that's hot. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, hell yeah. And afterward, he was like, it bled a little. And I was like, well. You're like good. Never forget me. 

Tinx:  And here you are, eight years later. See guys? Bite people on dates. 

Anna: Give them a little chomp chomp. 

Anna: All right, you did it, girl. Thank you for having me. You're the best. 

Tinx: You're the best.

CREDITS:

For a transcript of the episodes and more resources, visit www DOT shopflamingo DOT com SLASH unruly podcast.

Unruly is a podcast created by me, Anna Wesche, and produced by Pineapple Street Studios in collaboration with Flamingo.

Our producer is Marialexa Kavanaugh. 

Our senior managing producer is Kamilah Kashanie. 

Our editor is Josh Gwynn. 

Our Head of Sound & Engineering is Raj Makhija . 

Our Senior Audio Engineers are Pedro Alvira and Marina Paiz.

This episode was Mixed by Pedro Alvira.

Our Executive Producer is Je-Anne Berry.

ALT: Our Executive Producer for development is Asha Saluja. 

ALT: Our executive producers are Asha Saluja and Je-Anne Berry.

Our Music is from Epidemic Sounds.

Our Project Manager is Abigail Juezan [HOO-weh-zun]

Our Video Editor and Sound Designer is Elliott Moe

Our Art Director is Chelsea Castro

Our Animator is Abby DeWitt

And I'm your host, Anna Wesche.